Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

Question: when something is ILLEGAL, doesn't it mean a legislative or governing body passed a LAW forbidding it?  If a person and/or his family is in America ILLEGALLY, he and his family MUST be deported back to their own country. WHY is this so complicated?

Four generations ago when my family came through Ellis Island, processed into America as LEGAL Russian immigrants, they had to learn English, U.S. history, U.S. customs & traditions and U.S. laws before they were eligible to APPLY for citizenship. Why is it different for those who sneak across the border?

Regarding "profiling," I applaud ARIZONA for using common sense. We shouldn't "profile" U.S. Citizens.  But if profiling is required in order to sort through those who ARE citizens from those who ARE NOT, so what?  If you are a citizen and you get profiled, show your ID and move on...otherwise, how would YOU suggest we figure out who can stay and who must go?

While we sit back comfortably and debate the pros and cons of illegal immigration like a bunch of intellectual idiots...11 million ILLEGALS are 1) using our public welfare and medical services; 2) NOT paying the taxes that provide those services; 3) clogging the system so actually needy U.S. citizens have a harder time getting benefits.

And here's the REAL crime: when asked, many illegals stated they DO NOT WANT to be U.S. Citizens!  They want the benefits of working in America without the costs and hassles of citizenship, especially while sending BILLIONS of U.S. dollars back to Mexico each year.

It's unfair and it is wrong.  As a U.S. citizen, if you are caught living & working in Mexico without a valid visa/permit, you are IMMEDIATELY thrown in jail, charged, and eventually tried in violation of Mexican immigration and naturalization laws. The same should apply in America!


Community Talk

Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

Very interesting Don -  because altho' Christie promised to sign this bill before his re-election, apparently after he won again he flip-flopped & refused to sign it.   Was this political manoevering to get votes of the Hispanics?  It seems so???

Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

Chris Christie Signs Bill Giving In-State Tuition To Undocumented Immigrants

Students at New Jersey public colleges who are in the United States illegally will get an immediate tuition break after Gov. Chris Christie signed a bill Friday allowing them to pay in-state tuition rates.

The difference is significant. At Rutgers, the state's flagship public university, the in-state tuition is $10,700 annually — $14,000 less than the out-of-state cost. Full-time students also pay nearly $3,000 in fees, and room and board are extra.

That is setting up some very bad things when out of state students meet up with those Illeagles.

Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

The irony is that Canadians will be saying the same thing about Americans within the decade. 

Better Question:  Why is the US a magnet for illegal immigrants, particularly for those fleeing narco-states like Mexico?

Two part answer:  One is clearly the higher standard of living enjoyed by Americans. Afterall, our slogan was once "The Land of Opportunity." Secondly, American's can not deflect responsibility for creating the insufferable quality of life in countries like Mexico.  

Revenues from the Mexican drug trade is estimated at roughly $100B a year (matching IBM's yearly revenue).  That's 1/10th of Mexico's GDP. Mexico is getting crushed under the weight of having to fight this lost war against drugs.  This is largely a result of American policy and the monopoly it rewards to the Mexican cartels.  Legalizing marijuana would likely cut these revenues by more than $20B... meaning less money to extort, bribe, recruit, buy weapons, etc.  

Building fences and implementing stringent immigration laws will do nothing to change the source of the problem.  Create policies that improve the quality of life in Mexico and there wont be a need to build fences or enacting discriminatory immigration laws.


Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

Wedge - these facts cannot be denied.   Seems like the Federal Gov't is now waging WAR on it's own legal citizens who are merely defending their  right to protect their own borders against illegal invaders many of whom are causing havoc & creating crimes.   There is no common sense.

    These politicians are indeed declaring WAR but they are firing false rhetoric against the innocent -- rather than the guilty parties.   When is enough enough?  

Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

Well, I thought I was done commenting on this blog.  But then I came across and a fellow by the name of Chuck Baldwin.

DC declares war on states

By Chuck Baldwin

Among the limited duties of the US Government enumerated in the federal Constitution is Article. IV. Section. 4. "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion." However, for several decades now, the federal government in Washington, D.C., has shown great ambition and propensity to engage in activities to which it was never authorized, and to ignore those responsibilities with which it is specifically charged. The responsibility of the federal government to protect each State against invasion is a classic example of the latter.

Can anyone deny that the states on the US southern border (California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas) are being invaded by an ongoing onslaught of illegal aliens (many of whom are violent and dangerous criminals)? Somewhere between 12 and 30 million illegals now reside in the US. The entire country is feeling the effects of this invasion, but the Border States are literally under siege. And not only does the federal government do nothing to protect the states against this invasion, it actively wars against states such as Arizona when they attempt to protect themselves. Yes, I am saying it: the Washington, D.C., lawsuit against the State of Arizona's immigration laws should be regarded as an act of war against the State of Arizona in particular, and against the states general in principle.

Please consider what Arizona and the other Border States are dealing with. According to published reports:

  • In Los Angeles, 95% of all outstanding warrants for homicide in the first half of 2004 (which totaled 1,200 to 1,500) targeted illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) were for illegal aliens.
  • Some private reports state that 83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix and 86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque, New Mexico, are for illegal aliens. These reports cannot be verified, of course, because the feds discourage law enforcement agencies from releasing such statistics.
  • At any given time, up to 75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
  • 23% of all inmates in LA County detention centers are "deportable."
  • LA police estimate that violent gangs, such as MS-13 and 18th Street Gang, are "overwhelmingly" composed of illegal aliens.

To read one very enlightening testimony given before Congress by an expert on illegal immigration containing some of the above information (and much more), go to:



Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

Southpen - doesn't all this suddenly make good American people 2nd class citizens?    They deserve to be 1st class!

Such reckless short-sightedness has its consequences -  can you ever recover?  Are we going to sit back & watch China manufacture almost anything & everything?   Even the Garlic I bought to-day was from China.   China's middle class is rapidly expanding while the opposite is true in the U.S. & Canada.  I fear eventually there could be RIOTING in the streets over the next 18 months -  God forbid.  

The U.S. money printing presses can't go on forever nor can the rising debt & low interest rates.   What then?  Chaos for millions?  Our manufacturing companies, large & small are gradually disappearing in Canada as well - we are not immune.





Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

No manufacturing jobs should have ever left the U.S.  and Canada,but a   twisted government  which was so arrogant to believe that a few unionized  industries that seemed too powerful here at home could be reborn in a distant land where our corporate guidance would ensure cheaper goods for our people and higher paying managerial jobs would survive Yeah ,right,Well ,I used to blame our fate on the unions but they were only a showroom for corporate America to slowly unveil its destruction of the backbone of both the U.S. and Canada,like ANA said,our middle class. Walmart as many of you know gave ultimatums  to manufacturing .''You must sell us that TV for this price'' The manufacturer  faced bankruptcy or relocation.Yes,it would at that time been a cheaper set up in China than Mexico ,how short sighted.We are now putting manufacturing in Mexico but the might of the American Industrial machine is gone.The great companies were bought years ago and the plan now to industrialize Mexico is  under  shared command all at a time when we need the jobs here.Americas biggest ,richest corporation manufactures nothing.They sell us reminders of our own downfall every day .Read the labels sometimes ,its sad.

Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense Outflow of Jobs

Southpen & ANA - the outflow of jobs overseas to reduce costs & improve  the bottom line profits at any cost has had horrible consequences to America.   Even my youngest  daughter considered moving to India temporarily to help Accenture implement lower costs.   Again it comes down to the almighty  buck - at the cost of loyal, hard working & deserving Americans ending up on the short end of the stick.   Shame, shame shame on these large corporations who cut at any costs.   I know they even extended this same  daughter's maternity leave to make their bottom line look better because they had just experienced their  worst quarter in their history.     Who the heck cares about hard working faithful employees who give their best.   Money has been the root of all evil.

Same thing in healthcare where employees sometimes work overtime for nothing -  my oldest daughter used to work 12 -14 hr days for an 8 hr. salary -  unconscienable.    As a part time manager for the world's number one brain injury research & treatment centre in Chicago,  it was all about money -  nearly everyone got burned out, even the doctors,  despite the highest possible level of care they gave to patients from all over the world. she always hada either a distinquished or excellent rating.  They underpaid & overworked their entire staff.


Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

Re sending manufacturing jobs to Mexico. Great idea. I've wondered about that too and read somewhere that the labor is not cheap enough compared to China and India!!! Hard to comprehend. You know, Southpen, you bring up an important issue - the outflow of jobs from the US. The irony of globalization is that it is causing our middle class to dwindle. While ours is dwindling, the middle classes of China and India are, for the first time - growing. I think that this is one of the greatist threats to our country - the loss of our middle class. 

I guess that what will happen is that as the middle class rises in China and India, they will demand better pay, until businesses decide that they might as well come back to the US.


Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense! Great Suggestions.

Wedge, ANA. Hal, Southpen & everyone participating on this Blog - IMHO a lot of outstanding COMMON SENSE & positive points of view & solutions have been discussed here.   Kudos to everyone - this is one of the best Blogs this year.   Too bad we couldn't form a committee for Active Action & resolutions.

      It is obvious that Mexico needs to address their internal problems & create a healthier, attractive climate where their own citizens could thrive & contribute.   The drug problem & violence is horrendous there.   I love the idea of Mexican illegals returning to a healthier economy in their own homeland & thus alleviating the excessive burden on the U.S.  system -- education, health, unpaid taxes etc - it would be a WIN WIN solution for both countries.  Dreams can become realities if there's a determined will to get the job done.    

Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

Thats sounds right to me but, Why does our government,California or U.S federal have to put money into a Mexican problem.We have to Stop guns from going into their country.Thats expensive.The answer is in cooperation of their Billionaires and ours. The GreatWalmart , in the U.S. ,caused the greatest number of U.S. manufacturing jobs to leave here and settle in mostly Asia.Had they  a shred of patriotism and a little foresight they could have insisted our electronic, appliance and clothing manufacturers relocate in Mexico rather than Asia.The only Mexicans here would probably be farm laborers which has gone on for decades.U.S citizens would of complained about Mexicans having so many of their manufacturing jobs but they got over it with the Asians so why not the Mexicans. They still could get the great deals at Walmart. What a trade off! Every time our government throws money at some one else's problem ,postulating that they will fix it ,it turns into a nightmare for the American taxpayer . This is a business problem.Plain and simple.They need jobs.They work cheap.They would be happier to be making 10 bucs an hour in Mexico than here. By the time we figure out how to fix the problem it will be too late or the problem will seemingly ease on its own due to business going on between the two nations.Maybe Walmart can go into clothing manufacturing since their retail expansion is beginning to be limited. Least they could do.

Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

Hi Hal,

I wholeheartedly agree that if we are going to give aid to other countries, better that the aid goes towards stabalizing one at our own back door. It is not an easy problem, and it is one made all the more difficult by the fact that, as Wedge said, the demand for drugs over here fuels the corruption over there.

Your points are well taken, and I honestly don't know what else would work. Lets just hope that there will be aid money left here to give, period. 

The situations with executions and kidnappings in these border states is serious and I think under reported. Something will have to be done quickly, or our country will be forced to take action in ways not anticipated and not needed had the situation been addressed earlier, and again - if the drug market over here did not exist.

Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!


I'm not advocating just throwing aid money at Mexico or anyplace else.  My suggestion is that by redirecting foreign aid that we already pass out so ineffectiely and by proper diplomatic pressure with high level attention, we could assist Mexico's government in cleaning up the corruption and narco mobsters.  Not suggesting at all that we spend more in foreign aid than we already throw away, just want to spend it closer to home.  I suspect that this would pay off in the long run when conditions in Mexico improved and the millions of illegals chose to return and there would be no incentive for others to illegally cross.  Think of the billions that would be saved across the country if we didn't have to patrol the southern border so relentlessly, didn't have to serve the millions of illegals in our social service programs and if the jobs they now hold would be available to legal workers who would actually pay taxes.  Estimates of the illegal immigrants' cost to the U.S. range all over the place but Arizona says their cost is about $2 billiona year.  California says it's over $10 billion annually for their state.  I've seen logical looking estimates of well over $100 billion for the nation.  A lot of good could be done here and in Mexico with that kind of money.  What else would work?  I've not seen or heard any other plan that sounds more promising or even possible.


Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

Southpen, just read your post - great post.

Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

Dear All,

Such interesting ideas and opinions. I have really enjoyed reading this.

Hal - your idea for aid is noble. I agree with Fastfoot's observance, though - even if US aid were to go to Mexico, what chance is there that it would be funnelled to the right places by Mexico's corrupt government, and as he said - with our national debt and our multiplying deficit - how much longer can we continue to give out aid - to anyone - anyway!!?

Wedge you are right that the drug cartel would not exist if there were no market for drugs. That video did just what you said it would! Why the heck are they not demonstrating in their own country?... because they probably figure they will get shot.


Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

Carlos Slim, A Mexican,is the wealthiest person in the world.There are another seven Mexicans that are billionaires .The problem with Mexico is their own .A friend should not let social problems in their own country disrupt their neighbors.The U.S. has no money left to nation build on any level.The U.S. is the supplier of most of the firearms that prevent Mexico from having civil order.They return that favor with drugs that our citizens readily except.There lies a problem solving initiative that could benefit us both but has only a partial cause to do with their inability to properly house,feed ,educate and employ their own people, which is back to the fact that they have too many to sustain their social infrastructure. They should be working to create laws that would influence their wealthy citizens to pay higher wages to enable the populous to take a more even role in the future of the country.From the beginning of the great debate here I always have said  use the massive deportation as a threat to force them to change policies that better respect their northern friends. Spanish is a beautiful language and I think it would be a good second language for many Americans but should and absolutely cannot be a forced issue like French is in Canada .Another expense we do not need. 

Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

Fastfoot and Wedge,

Great comments!  

Fastfoot, I agree whole heartedly that the U.S. cannot save the world.  I'm very much in favor of re-evaluating our priorities and using our resources closer to home.  I maintain that money well spent helping Mexico would be more than off set by what we'd save on law enforcement and social services in the States.  Admittedly, it would be a cash flow kind of problem, but, as a committed nation, we've done harder jobs.  Of course it wouldn't be easy and the corruption must be dealt with first. 

Wedge, thanks.  You certainly did understand the point I was trying to make.  (I wish I could express myself as well as you do.)  We're so focussed on blaming the victims that we overlook the core problem, i.e. a stinking political and social mess in Mexico. 

 HalW's the BOTTOM LINE!!!

I think after this, I will shut up about this blog I started.  Watch and see if you don't agree that NOTHING ELSE NEED BE SAID!

I rest!


Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!


Superb analysis!  And if I understand your point, it can be summarized as illegal immigration being yet a symptom of the larger issue of Mexican economic and geopolitical instability.

Your asset diversion idea is tantamount to the concept of "wellness" in the healthcare industry where investment is made educating citizens about better lifestyle choices in order to keep them healthy and hopefully better equipped to PREVENT illnesses.  I think your idea has merit.

In my profession, I am able to maintain a keen sense of situational awareness of happenings in Mexico mostly for reasons of Maritime & Homeland Security.  Unfortunately, what I hear about mostly is how drug cartels continue to cripple most of the economic, political, and security elements there.

In my view, until we address the problem AMERICANS & the rest of the world CREATE by offering Mexico a HUGE market for illicit drugs--a market that has continued to incentivize generations of Mexicans to assume substantial risk--we will never have a Mexican neighbor governmentally stable enough to use rechanneled American money for anything but MORE corruption.  Right now, it's 1845 and the WILD WILD WEST in Mexico. 

In the words of Jerry McGuire, "help me, help you!"  The concept only works when physical security and political stability are restored to a point enabling use of greater amounts of U.S. aid to help Mexico create her own stable population, infrastructure, industries, and jobs to hopefully retain citizens and entice illegals in this GO HOME!

When I see scores of illegals picketing and protesting in major U.S. sanctuary cities, I am promted to ask, "WHY AREN'T YOU AS POLITICALLY ACTIVE IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY?" 

To illegals I say, GO HOME AND PROTEST in vast numbers!  And to those contemplating leaving I say, Don't leave--stay, and help fix your broken nation!  Where's the national pride?

Thanks again HAL!


Re: Illegal Immigration: A different perspective! Empathy

Perhaps we should ask ourselves this question - what if we were a young mexican with 2-3 young children & suddenly couldn't find work & thereby feed our family?   What could we do to supply the basics of life?    Most likely our parents & in-laws could only help a little or for a short time.   Eventually DESPERATION would set in -  our biggest investment being our young family.

All these stories about the U.S. - work, prosperity, a chance to have a life & provide for our loving wife & kids.  Why not?  It appears dangerous, but I'm desperate -  others have done it  & sent food & clothing money back home.    What the heck I'll try it under the cover of darkness thro' the known passage routes - water or land -  it doesn't matter -- it's a case of LIFE or DEATH for my family!!!!!

This scenario sheds a different light on their plight -  always different when we show a little EMPATHY & put ourselves in their shoes & predicament!!!   What would you do?   Rob, kill or gamble, deal in drugs or other undesirable activities?    Not a nice choice to make is it?

Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense! HalW -2 questions

A very balanced & well thought out analysis HalW  -  everything you say is true.   My question is twofold:

1) How many nations can the U.S. bail out when their own debts are astronomical.   They seem to be the world policeman & this is next to imposssible & certainly not sustainable financially.  Now they are having trouble looking after their own citizens -- just look at how many U.S. states are potentially heading for bankruptcy.

2)  Even if monies already spent on the U.S border - say $1b or whatever - what guarantees do we have those monies would go where they were designed to go?   Not into corrupt hands?  I like your proposal though - it would be ideal if we could lift up Mexico, create jobs & remove the desperate incentive to come to the U.S. to have 1/2 a life if not a whole one -- certainly an upgrade at the very least.

Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense!

There is a practical resolution to the problem of illegal immigration from Mexico into the U.S.. 

I think we all agree now that it's not practical, maybe not even possible, to completely seal off the border between the U.S. and Mexico.  

I think we also, mostly, agree that it's not practical nor humane to simply round up all the Hispanic illegals and ship them back across the border.

Further, I think we can agree that the vast majority of Hispanic illegals have come into the U.S. to find employment in order to support their families back in Mexico as well as those with them in the States.  For the most part they are good, hard working, law abiding  people.

Now let's consider some other points:

1.  Most of the U.S./Canada border is unfenced, much of it is unpatrolled, yet there is not a problem with millions of Canadians  illegally crossing the border and illegally residing in the U.S.  (Probably more of a problem with U.S. citizens illegally crossing into Canada, but that's a different issue.)

2.  Canada is a well governed, prosperous nation of law abiding, enabled and well educated citizens.   The government and infrastructure are world class.  Education and commerce are top notch, people certainly don't need to sneak into the States for employment.  

3.  The Mexican government and infrastructure are "broken" - have been for years.  Corruption is rife in government and police forces are ineffective and intimidated or bribed by  criminals from pimps to murderers. Due to the corruption and disfunctional infrastructure of Mexico there are no proper education nor social service systems, most people are born into poverty and hopelessness and destined to die in the same condition. Their only hope is to risk their lives trekking across the desert into the U.S.  hoping to find any kind of employment, no matter how menial and degrading.  

4.  If Mexico and Central American nations could develop honest, effective governments and infrastructure, they too would prosper and their citizens would have no interest in immigrating to the U.S., legally or illegally. 

5.  The U.S. distributes billions of dollars in foreign aid annually but Mexico's share is a very small fraction.  The total numbers are hard to dig up because there are many different aid programs but Mexico is close to the bottom of the list.  

6. U.S. policy makers, diplomats and intelligence services expend tremendous resources to court and coddle overseas nations they consider more important (or maybe just more chic), yet practially ignore an important neighbor right on our southern border.

7.  The U.S. spends billions of dollars to patrol the  southern border, a billion dollars was spent on the ineffective "virtual fence" alone.  The cost of social services for illegals in the U.S. is hard to nail down but is certainly in the billions if not hundreds of billions.  Law enforcement activities to find and deport illegals are a huge expense by themselves.  

My opinion is that if the money and diplomatic resources currently spent chasing illegals in the U.S. were redirected to an all out assistance program for Mexico, we would immediately see less illegal immigration and eventually, a return to Mexico as educational and employment prospects improved there and illegals returned to their homeland (querencia to you Spanish speakers).  We would save a huge sum of money that could be put to much better use in the States, also, wouldn't it be nice to see employers scrambling to fill all the openings left behind in the U.S.?

I don't think this is pie in the sky.  I do think it would require a change in Wa.D.C. to stop thinking of Mexico as a pimple on our ass and start thinking of it as a worthy neighbor deserving of our assistance.  






Your morning smile is as follows regarding who should be eligible to be President of the United States:  Courtesy of Wizardofaus - thankyou Wizard!!!



This just might make
your day a little brighter!!

You, who worry about
democrats versus republicans--relax, here is our real problem.  In a
Purdue University classroom, they were
discussing the qualifications

President of the
.  It was pretty

must be a natural born
citizen of at least 35 years of age.  However, one
girl in the class
immediately started in on how unfair was the
requirement to be a
natural born citizen.  In short, her opinion was that
this requirement
prevented many capable
individuals from
The class was taking
it in and letting her rant, and not many

the floor when she
wrapped up her argument by stating "What makes a
natural born citizen
any more qualified to lead this

country than
born by


Yep, these are the
same kinds of 18-year-olds that vote in our


Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense! Wedge's Books

Wizardofaus - tell her she's on.   Down there in Aruba they speak Papiomento- which is a mixture.   Tell her I'm willing to pay for these lessons from an expert.    Spanish is definitely on the rise worldwide as Monimoni pointed out.   We never stop learning do we?






Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense! Wedge's Books

Hey fastfoot, the better half is Hispanic, she can teach you down on the beach one of these holidays !

Re: Illegal Immigration: - Wedge's 4 P`s - Passion Club

Wedge - maybe we should call you the 4P Man - your heart & soul are in the right places brother.  May your rewards be great in the truest sense.    Do you think we might or should form a ``Passion Club` - certainly seeing a lot on this Blog. I could nominate you for President - haha.  ANA & I will serve as well as Bothwings TNT  Southpen & others.


I write for Pleasure, Passion, Penance,  and that order!  Great priorities Wedge!

Re: Illegal Immigration: No Common Sense! Wedge's Books

Yes Monimoni -  I echo ANA`s sentiments - kudos.  Keep up the good work - we wish you continued success!  You know in Canada we study French as a 2nd language.   Most of us never use it - I did in Northern Ont for a while -  Òuve ta bouche grand - cèst ne pas fas mal etc - haha.    I think the young children should be studying Spanish as well.  I predict that in the future Spanish will become mandatory -  perhaps a little Mandarin as well.